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Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 00:14:01 +0200 (EET)
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To: dlanor@oden.se (Ronald Andersson)
From: papval@otenet.gr (Vassilis Papathanassiou)
Subject: Re: STinG (and more)
X-Mailer: NEWSie Version 0.82 (Atari)
X-UIDL: a193e26ee99e1118891cd05bf0c68c75

Hi Ronald

----- snip ----- re: XBOOT and setups
I have appx 35 setups in each machine, i know what you mean...

>----- snip ----- re: Newsie
A bug i found is that if after runing Newsie 0.82, the first thing you
do, is to open the 'Edit Nicknames' dialog, the program bombs.
As for the 'change dir' bug, i tried to find out what's wrong with my
FTP Server, but i couldn't. Comparing the files that a remote server
sends, with what FTP_SERV sends, they are the same. I'll contact
John Rojewski, and i hope we'll come up with something...

>>----- snip ----- re: Pithagoras theory

>I realize a full understanding would require a good knowledge of the
>language involved, but even a partial understanding is enough to state
>that any change in grammar or spelling rules would invalidate the whole
>concept.  Hmmm, but all languages are constantly evolving...
>
Sure, that's why i believe that this language is not the result of
evolution. Even if my ancestors were the most brilliant guys on earth,
they could have a very good or structured language, but not THIS one.
This language is something like a RISC cpu, or C++, or something similar.
You start with simple building blocks and go to more complicated structures.

Since it's something we can also do in the future to communicate with other
civilizations, i suspect this is exactly what happened at about 25.000 BC.
How can i say that ? Not me, Hellenic mythology is full of such reports.

But first i want to make clear that i'm not trying to prove that Hellenic
people are the best of this world. Far from that.

  Hellas (el-las) means 'stone of light'. Hel (El) alone means God.
Hel-lin is the son of God. (ok i tried to be precise). Mythology NEVER
talks about the Hellenic nation as something special, in fact it allways
refers to 'the people of this earth'. No borders. But who are the people ?
If you know the term 'anthropology', this is it! (again 'anthropos' is
different from just 'people'. The etymology of this word has the 'An' in
the begining, which in fact was 'On' and means something (a being) that
undestands his existence! (ie the philosophical question "Who am i; where
i come from; where am i going;" So, clearly 'Hellin' is everyone who has
'the light of god' and NOT a nation.

If i caused more confusion than giving some answers (or bases to think)
there is a trash-can on the desktop waiting for useless things...

>I know that the ancient greek culture was very concerned with preserving
>the precise form of the language, since much of its traditions and even
>formal history was based on unwritten oral tradition.  This is also why
>(and how) the ancient greek verse forms and hexameters were developed,
>as a means to enable the memorisation of huge texts, in a way making it
>unlikely to be corrupted by faulty memories.  An incorrectly remembered
>verse would (ideally) simply not fit into the pattern of the others.
>
The reason they are written (or told) THIS way, is because they contain
precise informations (mainly astrological) in a way that someone can
'extract' them, knowing the correct 'keys'. It has been done (partly)
by an astronomy professor (and director of Penteli's Planitarium).
His name was Konstantinos Hasapis (1914-1987) and i don't know if they
have been translated in another language. It's about Apollon and has
to do with the star (sun) Serios (the closest 'giant' sun to our planet
system. It contains amazing information about orbits, etc (even about
serios B which is not visible !)

>I believe the system you describe was a similar construction intended
>to preserve the integrity of individual words from any future change.
>I also believe that such a system could not possibly be adapted as an
>'afterthought' to any naturally developed language without extensive
>changes to its rules of grammar and spelling. Therefore the construction
>of this system must have been accompanied by a language reform, enforced
>mainly to make this construction feasible.
>
I tend to believe the above explanation, even if there were no spaceships,
only simple astrological 'conditions'. Again it's a huge subject to
analyze through mails. But who knows, maybe we can have a 'real' talk
some day. (my wife works at Olympic airways, so i have some free tickets!)

>----- snip ----- re: Phillogic
>>Yes, this is the general idea, but keep in mind that most people want to
>>be able to read the originals, and there are also tools for this.
>
>I wouldn't mind being able to read some of those works myself, but I
>think it would take a lot of time to learn the language properly.
>
Better start now! Bill Gates said that artificial intelligence computers
will 'speak' ancient hellenic. It's the first time i'm afraid for this
language :-)

>>----- snip ----- Wineland
In fact i know some of this story (history) and i'm highly interesting
in learning more. I'll search.

>----- snip ----- re: Our interests
Symphonic instrumental is favourite to me too. As for fifties-sixties-
seventies you can find useful infos on "http://www.radiogold.gr"  They
have more than 18500 titles (you can also hear live, but i think we
still don't have this format for the ATARI).

>I've never seen the Prologic specs, but any serious sound processing is
>bound to be improved by more parallel DA converters.  In fact I think I
>have seen some add-on for the Falcon containing several such (8 ?).
>
Prologic is simple. From a stereo source, everything that is exactly the
same on both chanels with the same phase, is the central channel. If same
with opposite phase, it's the peripheral (surround) channel. Piece of cake
for a DSP ! And there are several add-ons for the falcon, with true hi-fi
specs (ie 4 in 4 out, optical inputs and outputs etc).

>----- snip ----- re: DSP programming

>To use DSP in serious multitasked applications we need a really smart
>system for how the DSP resource is shared between tasks, and since
>Atari is not around anymore it needs to be done by the newer system
>developers (Andreas Kromke etc).
>
I have never tried to 'multitask' DSP pieces of code, but 'Modern Atari
System Software' from Hisoft states that it's possible. If every app
loads it's code as DSP subroutines, takes the handle, and correctly uses
the DSP_lock and unlock functions, i don't see why it shouldn't work.
At least Atari did it with multitasking in mind.

>----- snip ----- re: Working with PCs
>>I'm afraid this is true, but at least i try hard.
>
>I have myself too, but sometimes it is not possible or practical.
>I may even have to do a job on a PC soon myself, to earn some extra
>money for christmas presents  (I have lots of nieces and nephews).
>
Tell me about it ! I have lots also. But i'm already working with PCs
and i do not intend to do it during christmas!

>>----- snip ----- re: Telepathy
>>>
>>> Actually that trend leads away from it, so the time needed is eternal...
>>> But hopefully modern culture will not get stuck in that rut that long.
>>> In fact it can't, because then it will not survive very long.
>>>
>>You don't know how mutch i hope so.
>
>I think I know what you mean, but I can't fully agree.  If the present
>culture falls it is likely to do so in a very violent manner, leaving
>very few (if any) survivors...  I'd prefer some change through more
>peaceful means, such as a renaissance through new scientific findings
>and technology breakthroughs.  This is the only way mankind can spread
>beyond the limits of this world, which would make the total extinction
>through a single war impossible.
>
Ooops! I didn't meant war and destruction. The hope goes to the change!
But even though i'm normaly optimistic, i can't see signs of improvement.
What scares me more, is this 'globalization of economy', which will give
enormous power to some people, organizations, whatever. After that i'm
afraid our bright free days, will be history. And this time everything
will be 'legal'.

>To ensure survival of our species (not to mention our culture), we need
>efficient space travel, and we need it ASAP.
>
With this technology, forget it. With time-space 'games', who knows...

>>----- snip ----- re: Gods inside UFOs

>That last can actually be fairly well estimated by direct observation
>of the lunar phases as seen from earth.  The mere statement of this
>period as being a 'day on the moon' is more important, because modern
>historians do not credit the people of this period with understanding
>real planetography.
>
Yea, sure, they didn't !! For example the highest mountain on our solar
system (in Mars, 26 km) is called Olympus, a large valley Hellas, the
valley behind Olympus 'Arcadia Planitia' etc, etc. And what about
Andromeda, Horion, etc, etc. There is no end, in hellenic mythology
(and many others), so that 'modern historians' make me laugh.

>I find it even more amazing that the Mayans had accurate timetables for
>solar eclipses stretching many thousands of years back, and quite a bit
>into the future as well. Note that despite this they are not recognized
>by archaeologists et al. as having known the real causes of eclipses,
>which seems absurd to me.
>
Mayans are also a mystery. Towns in very strange places, NO roads, they
appear and disappear etc. Again, archaeologists have a very restricted
view in many respects.

>Their calculations (?) for the past go far beyond the lifetime of their
>own civilization, and are correct insofar as our own computers can tell.
>
This is also what i know, their base 20 number system used for calculations.

>Unfortunately their civilization had fallen even before the spaniards
>arrived to help them into the grave (as they did to so many others).
>
And they disappeared for the next 300 years. But they seem to wait for
something...

>----- snip ----- re: Modern technology

>>Note that i'm not at all against progress or science,
>>i only wish the motivation was not money.
>
>Even that is not the real culprit, but the shortsighted greed for direct
>gains regardless of future effects is.  People need to grow up and take
>the long view as to what constitutes 'gain' and what constitutes 'loss'.
>Then even those acting to maximize monetary gains would have to change
>their methods, because for longterm gains it is necessary to preserve
>an environment allowing survival.
>
That's what i believed some time ago. Now i'm not so sure. I can't believe
they don't see it. They just don't care. How can they be convinced ?
I don't know. Note that whatever they do is 'legal' (they take good care
for this), so if we try to go against, we're the 'illegals'. If we wait
for them to see what is 'longterm gain', i'm afraid we'll have to wait
too long (and suffer much longer).
>
>----- snip ----- re: legends and myths of Hellas
>>
>>Burned or destroyed documents is always a sad story.
>
>Yes, and though some of our writing could not be burned such as rune
>stones, these too were usually dealt with to similar effect. In fact
>most old churches in Sweden have several rune stones built into the
>walls, and always with the main text facing mortar or other stones.
>Many of the most significant finds were made when such churchwalls
>had to be torn down for repairs.
>
If this is a coincidence...

>>We have thousands of burned libraries here, but very serious sources are
>>talking about guys that first stole and then burned the libraries. Most
>>of them the first 500 years AC.
>
>I would not be surprised to learn that a large part of the stolen books
>had ended up in the vatican library...  I do know they have many unique
>works, still classified as top secret by decisions many centuries back.
>
In fact they are. In vatican library, in Switzherland and who knows where
else. One of the 'vaticans' i know of, is talking for a guy called Hermes
the 'three times great' (!!) king of Agypt at 13000 BC. He had the bad
idea to write what in bible is called 'Gennesis'. So it comes as no
surprise that texts like that are buried so deep.

>----- snip ----- re: Democracy

>Yes, but even so we have no other form of government available to us,
>that does not _guarantee_ even worse oppression.  So what to do then ?
>
That's what worries me more. Democracy in it's old form is ok, but it also
depends on the 'quality' of the citizens. Now it's the opposite. Democracy
has an awful lot of laws to keep things under control. But justice and law
are different things. Normally we should be able to keep societies peaceful
by our selfs (Am i dreaming ?)

----- snip ----- re: Flie's majority and PCs !
>>Really good ! Majority also says: Go out and buy a PC. Are they right?
>
>I'd say those two statements make about equal sense  ;-)
>
Exactly!

>----- snip ----- re: FTP-Server
Since Peter hasn't check it yet, here is a copy for checking...
(please use your old FTPUSERS, archive doesn't contain one)

>>Thing 1.20 is also good news. But i'll wait for an english version.
>
>I only have 1.09 as yet, so I'll have to chek that out too (where ?).
>If certain things I dislike have been fixed I will use it in german even.
>
Get it form ftp.uni-berlin.de or from Joe Connor. One thing i noticed is
that window handling is better (no more double redraws).

>----- snip ----- re: Earthquakes
>I guess not having such problems is another of the advantages of living
>further from the equator like I do.  But the price for that is to have
>longer and colder winters.  The first snow came a couple of weeks ago...
>
Yep, looking at a shaking monitor is not so pleasant, as for snow, i like
it (a lot), but probably due to the fact that it's pretty rare down here.

Regards           Vassilis

----- snip -----
